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Interview with Leonard Kruizenga (english)
CAGEMATCH: Hey Len, before we get to the questions, let me thank you for taking the time to answer our questions.
Leonard Kruizenga: Your welcome, it's my pleasure.
CAGEMATCH: To start things off, as most of our readers probably don't know you, I'd like you to introduce yourself. When, where and under which names did you wrestle?
Leonard Kruizenga: My name is Len Kruizenga, I was known in professional wrestling as Len Kruger and Hans Krueger. I began my pro wrestling career in 1977 at the young age of 19, for the New England Wrestling Alliance. I had several name changes over the years: Lenny King, Len Von Kruger and then Hans Krueger. In 1983 and 1988 I appeared in the WWF as Len Kruger.
CAGEMATCH: Were you a fan of the sport growing up? Who were your childhood heroes?
Leonard Kruizenga: Yes, my dad and I were fans. I used to watch it with my dad starting when I was two or three years old. My favorites were Bruno Sammartino, Lou Thesz, Eduardo Carpentier, Pepper Gomez, Bobo Brazil, The Original Sheik, Don Leo Jonathan, Killer Kowalski, Ivan Koloff, Chief Jay Strongbow, Gorilla Monsoon, Victor Rivera, Domenic DeNucci, etc. In the mid 60's we lived in Georgia and I remember the Hines Boys were my favorites, Billy Boy and Bad Boy Jimmy. Also The Galentos, Al Spider and Mario. I liked the heels and the babyfaces, but of course back then I knew them as good guys and bad guys. My hero was Bruno Sammartino.
CAGEMATCH: When did you know that you wanted to get in the ring yourself? What made you want to get into pro wrestling?
Leonard Kruizenga: I knew very early, I was hooked from the beginning. Plus my grandfather was a professional wrestler in the early 1900's in the Chicago area. When I was 14 years old I wrote a letter to promoter Abe Ford who was the wrestling promoter at the old Boston Garden. He actually wrote me back and told me I was too young, but to be considered to become a professional wrestler I should have amateur wrestling experience and play all sports - not just one sport but all sports - which I took his advice on. Around 1975, Abe Ford was retired, so I wrote a letter to WWWF President Willie Gillsenburg and he wrote back and told me to contact Angelo Savoldi at the Boston Garden. I did and Angelo told me to get plenty of amateur experience. At the time amateur wrestling wasn't offered in school, so I went to the YMCU in Boston.
CAGEMATCH: Your grandfather was a professional wrestler as well? Who was he and did he influence you at all?
Leonard Kruizenga: His name was Sam Kruizenga. No not at the time.
CAGEMATCH: What did your friends and family think about your plans?
Leonard Kruizenga: When I mentioned I wanted to become a professional wrestler they said "Yeah sure, Len" and laughed.
CAGEMATCH: Even your grandfather laughed at you?
Leonard Kruizenga: No he encouraged me. He lived in Chicago at the time, and this is when we found out he was a former wrestler.
CAGEMATCH: So how did you get into it? I guess wrestling schools were few and far between back then.
Leonard Kruizenga: To make a long story short, I was an athlete all of my life playing all sports and semi pro baseball. I was into lifting weights and bodybuilding when I met New England Wrestling Alliance president Jack Viles. Jack gave me his business card and I started helping him a few days a week to set up and take down the ring at shows. I also helped sell tickets, set up chairs, escort the wrestlers to the ring, and bring the wrestlers ring jackets back to the dressing room. In 1977, he started a wrestling camp run by Bobby "Hurricane" Wheeler and former National Wrestling Alliance World Light Heavyweight Champion Gypsy Joe Dorsetti. Gypsy held that title in 1952.
CAGEMATCH: Did you know that wrestling was "fake" before you started training?
Leonard Kruizenga: I hate the word FAKE. We knew it wasn't always on the level, we just didn't know how they did it because back then some of it looked so real and convincing. I found out later that some of those punches and kicks I saw were real, they're called potatoes, and some guys back then worked very stiff.
CAGEMATCH: How much training did you receive before your first match and what was the training like?
Leonard Kruizenga: I'll never forget the first day. Being so young and naive I thought we were going to climb into the ring, but about 30 of us were escorted over to the very thin mats on the floor. There were about 30 of us, because Jack put an advertisement in the newspaper advertising for men interested in becoming pro wrestlers. A local pro by the name of Bobby "Hurricane" Wheeler, whom I mentioned before, explained what he wanted us to do. Bobby basically ran, threw himself up in the air and came crashing down on his back in the far corner of the mats. It was like he got beeled across the ring by himself. He demonstrated it again showing us how to arch our backs and fall correctly. A few guys said the hell with this and left right away. I found out in time the reason he did this was to eliminate the guys that weren't serious about this, and he did.
I got about 4 months of intense training before my first match, which was in June of 1977. The training was every Tuesday and Thursday, 7pm to 9:30pm and Saturday afternoons 1pm to 3:30pm. We started with calistetics, stretching, and plenty of basic exercise. I remember doing alot of pushups, situps, squats and squat thrusts. We were taught alot of holds and how to reverse them and escapes. Pro wrestling was different back then: alot of people wanted to see actual wrestling and we did receive that training. After four months I could chain wrestle with anybody, swap hold for hold. I learned alot of the old school catch-as-catch-can wrestling and some hooks that you don't see today. I can remember five or six guys lining up and the first one would bodyslam you. You would get up and the next guy would bodyslam you and you would continue until they all bodyslammed you. Then the process would begin again. By the time the last guy bodyslammed you, you had all you could do to get up off the mat.
Another time I remember the same process but only with forearm smashes to the chest. One guy would forearm smash you and you would give them one back. You go to the next guy and do the same. At the end you felt like your chest was going to cave in. This was all just to see how much you could take and to see if you'd return the next training day. In the end there were four of us out of 30 that made the grade and turned professional. Gary "Powerhouse" Poole, Steve "Marciano" Servizio, Stanley "Rocky" Raymond and myself.
CAGEMATCH: What were your goals and dreams when you started out?
Leonard Kruizenga: My goal was to learn all I could about the business, climb the ladder in the NEWA and become good enough to be a full time professional wrestler hopefully one day in one of the three major promotions, which at the time were the WWWF, NWA, and the AWA.
CAGEMATCH: So after 4 months of training you had your first match, what do you remember about it? Who was your opponent? Were you nervous at all?
Leonard Kruizenga: Yes, after four months Gypsy said we were ready and I had my first match against Danny Diamond from Portland, Maine. Danny had alot of experience in Santo's Big Time Wrestling and worked for a while with the famous Guerrero family in Los Angeles. I was very nervous but confident and extremely excited.
CAGEMATCH: How did the match go?
Leonard Kruizenga: It went to a 20 minute broadway draw to set up for a rematch.
CAGEMATCH: How much money did you make with your first match?
Leonard Kruizenga: Ten dollars.
CAGEMATCH: Did you make more money later on in your independent career in New England? Was it enough to make a living or did have a regular job as well?
Leonard Kruizenga: Sometimes we didn't get paid at all, but we worked anyway because we wanted the experience. Sometimes I made twenty five dollars and then when I met Killer Kowalski and started training with him in 1979, I made fifty dollars per show. It wasn't enough to make a living, so I kept my day job as a machinist and my part time job as a bouncer in a local night club a few nights a week.
CAGEMATCH: A few years later you fulfilled your dream. You finally made it to the then WWF in 1983. How did that come about? How did they get in touch with you? Did they call you or did you just show up at the arena and ask for a job?
Leonard Kruizenga: It's kind of a long story. I met Walter Killer Kowalski through Jack Viles in 1979. The NEWA folded and Walter was opening up a wrestling school in Salem, Ma. All of the boys needed a place to train and Jack arranged this through Walter. I was working out with Walter and a couple of his students that had worked TV's for the WWF. At the time two of them were driving down to Allentown, Pennsylvania the following day. I expressed to them that I had been sending letters and pictures to Gino Marella (Gorilla Monsoon), the man in charge of TVs, but never received a letter or phone call back. I had a few vacation days off from work so I decided to take them up on their offer and drive down with them the next day. I brought my gear with me and once we got to Allentown I was introduced to Tony Altimore. I talked to him, which was basically an interview and he told me I would need to talk to Gino. A few minutes later I was introduced to Gino. I only knew him as the intimidating Gorilla Monsoon we see on TV, and the man who a few years prior airplane spinned and slammed the great Muhammad Ali. This day though I found Gino to be a very polite, very articulate gentleman. At the end of our conversation he asked me if I'd like to work tonight and of course I said yes. My opponent was Tony Atlas. If it wasn't for being introduced to Gino along with my experience I wouldn't have made into the WWF. After that when they needed me they would contact me via telephone.
CAGEMATCH: Did you have a chance to meet your childhood heroes in the WWF?
Leonard Kruizenga: Some of them.
CAGEMATCH: How did you feel when you met them? Did they live up to your expectations?
Leonard Kruizenga: I was nervous. It was a dream come true, something I will never forget the rest of my life. You can compare it to a little kid that wants to become a major league baseball player and suddenly he's in the dugout with Ted Williams and Yogi Berra. Did they live up to my expectations: yes. I was welcomed in like a new brother. I would have never dreamed of how friendly they were. They were all very friendly and professional especially Don Muraco, Ivan Koloff, Butcher Vachon, and Sgt. Slaughter.
CAGEMATCH: You even wrestled Chief Jay Strongbow and George Steele what was that like?
Leonard Kruizenga: I worked with Chief Jay Strongbow in 1983, and all I knew was the finish. We couldn't talk about it before the match, because most of the time the heels and babyfaces were in seperate dressing rooms, not like today. So we put the match together in the ring as we went along. Chief was one of my childhood heroes and when I stood in the ring and watched him run down the aisle and all the fans tapping him on the back I had to pinch myself to make sure it was really happening. It was awesome working with the Chief.
I worked with George Steele in 1988. He said "Kid, this is going to be the easiest match of your career", and it was. They both worked a stiff style but I was used to that, in fact I welcomed it. It was an honor working with both of them.
CAGEMATCH: Did you meet Vince McMahon Sr. before he passed away in 1984? Or did you only deal with Vince jr.?
Leonard Kruizenga: Yes I met both of them.
CAGEMATCH: What were they like?
Leonard Kruizenga: Vince Sr. was the ultimate business man, well dressed with class. Vince Jr. at that time was doing the announcing and conducted the interviews, he liked to be called Mr. McMahon, even at that time. I have great respect for both of them.
CAGEMATCH: What was it like backstage? How long before belltime did you have to arrive? How did you find out who your opponent for the night was? And how did that compare to your previous experiences?
Leonard Kruizenga: My first experience in Allentown is still very clear in my mind because it was a dream come true for me. I was pointed in the direction to the heel dressing room and I was the first one in there. I put my bags inside a locker and sat down. The first superstar through the door was Don "Magnificent" Muraco. He said "Hey a new guy" and introduced himself saying "Hi, I'm Don Muraco." He made me feel very comfortable. Ivan Koloff came walking in next, he also introduced himself and came over, sat down next to me and started talking. Remind me to tell you about Ivan's tattoo on his arm later. Mr. Fuji was also very polite as well as Lou Albano, Butcher Vachon, Rene Goulet, Iron Mike Sharpe, Sgt. Slaughter, The Masked Superstar, Ernie Roth, who was The Grand Wizard, and Buddy Rogers. I arrived very early in the afternoon because TV's is an all day event that ends sometimes close to midnight. I looked for my name written on a sheet of paper taped to the dressing room wall that had a list of matches on it. I didn't know the finish or how long it would go until I got in the ring. In previous experiences the promoter or booker usually told me.
CAGEMATCH: Now that you've already mentioned it, what did Ivan have tattooed on his arm back then?
Leonard Kruizenga: Let's just say it's nothing any ordinary 16 year old would of got at the time.
CAGEMATCH: These days wrestlers always talk about how difficult it is for them to blend in in the WWE lockerroom. They always mention how they are expected to introduce themselfes to each and everyone when they get there. You just told me that when you were there even the top stars introduced themselves to you. Why do you think "expected" manners changed over the years?
A: I'm not really sure, but I'd guess it maybe the new boys coming in don't have respect for the sport of pro wrestling itself.
CAGEMATCH: What was the pay like in the WWF compared to your independent paydays?
Leonard Kruizenga: It was a little bit more then the independents at that time, not much more because it was the WWF TVs. The pay went up in 1988.
CAGEMATCH: So how much did they pay you in '85? And what was the pay like three years later?
Leonard Kruizenga: In 1983 for TV's I got $50 for the night, you could work once or three times in a night. In 1988 for TV's I got a few hundred.
CAGEMATCH: If I'm not mistaken you had already left the WWF before Hulk Hogan came along in December of 1983. Did you have any sense of what was going to happen?
Leonard Kruizenga: No. I was green and naive at the time. I should have realized something was happening because I remember recognizing Jim Barnett walking around but I just didn't put it together at that time.
CAGEMATCH: Let's get back to the independet circuit. Did that short run in the WWF do you any favors in regards to your career in the various independent promotions?
Leonard Kruizenga: It got me booked more. In 1984 I dropped some weight and won the New England Light Heavyweight Championship in a tournament.
CAGEMATCH: Your ringname Hans Krueger suggests you played an evil German? Is that right? And if so, do you have any German in you?
Leonard Kruizenga: Killer Kowalski gave me the name Hans Krueger. I had just started working as a heel because I was aggresive and it came natural to me, and I was looking for just the right gimmick. I shaved my head and thought of maybe portraying a Russian, but I didn't think it would work because although I was a big guy I just didn't think I looked powerful enough to get over as a Russian. I was training with Killer Kowalski at the time and working most of his shows when I showed up for a show with my shaved bald head. I walked in the dressing room and at first Walter didn't recognize me, he just gave me a look as if to say who are you, you can't be in here, I thought he was going to throw me out. When I said hello Walter, he said, "that's it, that's it, your going to be a German, quick think of a name." He was all excited. I thought for a while and of course all the great Germans came to mind such as the Von Brauners, the Von Steigers, Waldo Von Erich, Hans Schmidt, Kurt and Karl Von Hess, etc. Walter came up with Hans after Hans Schmidt and Krueger because it is a strong sounding German last name. He said "You will now be known as Hans Krueger from Munich, Germany." I liked it, and I went out to the ring that night as Hans Krueger billed from Munich, Germany and teamed up with Ron Starr to face Richard Byrne and Dan Petty for the IWF International Tag Team Championship. I'd like to be clear and let people know that the Hans Krueger gimmick was not a Nazi gimmick. It was meant to be a German wrestling heel gimmick only, not a Nazi gimmick. To my knowledge I do not have German blood in me, I am Ducth.
CAGEMATCH: That's quite alright. Did you have more fun working as a heel or as a face?
Leonard Kruizenga: A heel.
CAGEMATCH: Why did you like being the bad guy? Was is easier to be a heel?
Leonard Kruizenga: Yes, I enjoyed it more. I was aggressive so it came natural.
CAGEMATCH: How big were the crowds at those independent shows?
Leonard Kruizenga: Not very big, they ranged from maybe 25 people to a few hundred if it was a charity or benefit event.
CAGEMATCH: Did you ever have any problems motivating yourself? For example when the crowd was not as big as expected?
Leonard Kruizenga: Never, because I had so much desire, dedication, and determination. The only time I had problems motivating myself was my final match in 1988, because I knew it was time to end it.
CAGEMATCH: In 1988 you returned to the WWF for another short run. How, if at all, did the promotion change between '83 and '88?
Leonard Kruizenga: Different people were running things. My good friend Paul Richard was a WWF referee at the time and he told me what to expect. I compared it to what I experienced in 1983 and knew it would be different.
CAGEMATCH: How exactly was it different to your experience 5 years earlier?
Leonard Kruizenga: In 1983 most of the time there was always two dressing rooms wherever you wrestled. In 1988 during TVs it was one big room where everybody was and more of an entertainment show. However, I did enjoy the catered buffets before the show began, we didn't get that in 1983. In 1983 I ate some coldcuts from a convenient store and ate the left overs late after the show.
CAGEMATCH: Of course, steroids and other "performance enhancing" drugs played a role in professional wrestling in the 70s and 80s, and still do today. Do you have any experiences with steroids?
Leonard Kruizenga: Yes, when they were legal but not for very long.
CAGEMATCH: So you took steriods back then? Did you feel pressure from anyone to take them?
Leonard Kruizenga: I did, but not for very long. I experienced with tablets, I never injected anything. They were legal at that time.
CAGEMATCH: How about alcohol? A lot of people who wrestled for the WWF in the 80s have mentioned alcohol. They talked about it's use and abuse was pretty common backstage in WWF in the 80s. Did you experience any of that?
Leonard Kruizenga: No I never saw anyone drinking alcohol in the locker rooms. However, we did have a few beers after the shows.
CAGEMATCH: You wrestled a young Bret Hart in '88, who had and still has a huge fan base in Germany. Did you enjoy getting in the ring with the self proclaimed "best there was, best there is and best there ever will be"?
Leonard Kruizenga: Yes I did, it was a pleasure. I actually received a concussion in our match. It was my fault actually, when Bret executed a flying clothesline he did it so quick I didn't have enough time to tuck my head down and take the simple backbump and I hit the back of my head on the mat. It happens, but like I said it wasn't Bret's fault. I'd like to add that Bret is a real professional. It's standard practice when someone does a job for you to thank them. Some wrestlers I worked with in the WWF in 1988 didn't thank me, but that's alright. Bret walked around looking for me right after the match, he walked over shook my hand and said thank you.
CAGEMATCH: Did you ever get in the ring with the British Bulldog or the Dynamite Kid?
Leonard Kruizenga: No I never did. I did meet them and had brief conversation with Davey Boy Smith.
CAGEMATCH: You retired from the ring in 1988 at the young age of 30. Was there a specific incident that made you call it quits?
Leonard Kruizenga: No it wasn't one specific incident, it was a number of things. Mostly that the business had just changed so much. I loved the old-school style, steroid free, and no scripts to remember. Things changed too much.
CAGEMATCH: Did you suffer any injuries during your career?
Leonard Kruizenga: Yes a few. A broken nose, a chipped bone fracture in my ankle, two broken fingers, a broken rib, a seperated shoulder, a torn rotator cuff on my left shoulder, and a few concussions.
CAGEMATCH: Concussions are a huge talking point in the NFL today. Do you still feel any effects of your injuries today?
Leonard Kruizenga: Yes now that I'm older. I had multiple strokes in 2008, and another this past August, but the doctors aren't sure if the concussions years ago have anything to do with it. I had a 5 vessel heart bypass surgery last year and the strokes were a week after that, so maybe the surgery was the reason.
CAGEMATCH: Damn. I hope you are doing better now, Len. Let's turn to something more fun, shall we? Ribbing seems to be an extra-curricular activity wrestlers enjoy participating in, as told by Mick Foley in his best selling autobiographies. Did you witness any mischief like that in your career?
Leonard Kruizenga: Yes.
CAGEMATCH: Come on Len, please tell us more. Even if the rib was on you.
Leonard Kruizenga: I bought a brand new Camaro in 1984, and to make a long story short after drinking all night the Moondogs could barely stand up and pissed on it.
CAGEMATCH: I hope it didn't smell too bad when you found out. Can you tell me a fun backstage or road story?
Leonard Kruizenga: I could.
CAGEMATCH: Please do!
Leonard Kruizenga: I'll think I'll leave this one alone.
CAGEMATCH: That's a shame. When you look back at your career now, what did you enjoy the most?
Leonard Kruizenga: The love of the sport, putting the match together in the ring, the comraderie and I enjoyed the opportunity, it was a dream come true. There were no wrestling schools in those days, so I was very lucky.
CAGEMATCH: Any specific events?
Leonard Kruizenga: Yes a few. The first time I climbed in the ring with Gypsy Joe Dorsetti. My first pro match. The first time I met Walter "Killer" Kowalski and the training he provided for me. A 4th of July Spectacular at the Chelsea Football Stadium in Chelsea, MA wrestling the Gulla Bros. in my first Main Event with my tag team partner Steve Marciano. 1983, my first time in Allentown, PA. for WWF, and going back in 1988 with my good friend Paul Richard and Tony Ulysses. When Chief Jay Strongbow became a road agent he payed me one night eventhough I didn't work, thank you Chief. And doing Walter Killer Kowalski's famous Kangaroo Jump during one of my matches that he refereed. Nobody would do it, and when I did it I got a huge pop from Walter.
CAGEMATCH: Is there anything you didn't like?
Leonard Kruizenga: In 1988 trying to follow a script.
CAGEMATCH: Why didn't you like that? What did following a script change?
Leonard Kruizenga: It changes the entire art of professional wrestling. Years ago we told a story in the ring, and we did that as we went along.
CAGEMATCH: I have to ask the old dream match question: If you could wrestle anyone at the peak of their and your career, who would it be and why?
Leonard Kruizenga: It would be Bruno Sammartino, he was my wrestling idol growing up.
CAGEMATCH: Do you still follow wrestling on a regular basis today?
Leonard Kruizenga: No, but I tune in from time to time to see what's going on. I have some old tapes from years ago, so I watch them.
CAGEMATCH: What do you think about WWE and TNA nowadays?
Leonard Kruizenga: It's not the same pro wrestling anymore, it's entertainment. That doesn't take away from what I feel about the boys though, I'll give the boys credit they are all excellent atheletes, and amazing performers.
CAGEMATCH: Fair enough. So you watch WWE and TNA from time to time, do you? Who is your favorite wrestler of the current crop?
Leonard Kruizenga: I don't have a favorite, but I've always been impressed with Kurt Angle and former women's champion Awesome Kong.
CAGEMATCH: Interesting, Len. Who of today's wrestlers reflects your wrestling style the most?
Leonard Kruizenga: I was trained in the 1950's style of pro wrestling so I'd have to say nobody that I've seen lately. I don't mean this in a negative or disrespectful way.
CAGEMATCH: From your point of view, how much has the wrestling business changed over the years and what is the most important change?
Leonard Kruizenga: There is a tremendous change. Pro Wrestling is not on the Marquee anymore. Nowadays people want T&A, not real WRESTLING action. We didn't have scripts to remember. In my day we knew who was going over, what the the finish would be, and how long we were going to be in the ring, that was about it. But like the Killer always said, "Give the people what they want."
CAGEMATCH: Were those changes for better or for worse?
Leonard Kruizenga: The changes of today are worse.
CAGEMATCH: If you were in charge of the WWE nowadays, would you run things differently?
Leonard Kruizenga: Yes, absolutely.
CAGEMATCH: What would your most important change be?
Leonard Kruiznga: I'd get rid of the T&A. I'd also get rid of the scripts and bring back the old school pro wrestling. The boys would adapt because they're all great athletes and they would learn. It would slow things down a bit, each match would tell a story, there's too many high spots in a match these days. The real pro wrestling fans would enjoy it and stick around.
CAGEMATCH: Brock Lesnar made the jump from the WWE to Mixed Martial Arts and is currently the UFC Heavyweight Champion. Bobby Lashley left the WWE to pursue an MMA career as well and now wrestles for TNA at the same time. Ratings and buyrates for wrestling events on TV and PPV have declined dramatically this decade, while UFC' ratings and buyrates are at an all time high. Do you think UFC specificaly and MMA in general is competition for pro wrestling in the United States and worldwide, thus taking away revenue from wrestling promotions? Do you follow the major MMA promotions like UFC and Strikeforce?
Leonard Kruizenga: I don't think it's competition for pro wrestling, not at all because nowadays it's two different products. I try to follow the UFC, I am a big fan. I did see one Strikeforce show, the only big name was Fedor.
CAGEMATCH: What do you think of Hulk Hogan signing with TNA?
Leonard Kruizenga: I really don't think he's going to be the big draw they're hoping for.
CAGEMATCH: Critics have already been calling TNA the second coming of WCW. Can Hogan and Bischoff turn the wrestling business upside down once again?
Leonard Kruizenga: It's looking that way, but I don't think they'll let that happen. Not if they're in it for the long run.
CAGEMATCH: Well, Len, thanks for answering our questions. Before we wrap it up, I'd like to ask you what you are up to these days?
Leonard Kruizenga: I was in the security business and actually managed a security company for a few years, but I've had some health problems and am recovering from that. I'm married to a beautiful woman and have two stepson's and two daughters 9 and 17 years old, so they keep me busy. I also volunteer at my church once a week.
CAGEMATCH: Are you still in touch with former colleagues? Did you make any good friends in the business?
Leonard Kruizenga: I keep in touch with former WWF referee Paul Richard who is now the GM of New England Championship Wrestling, which is owned by Sheldon Goldberg. They actually just signed a contract with NESN television here in New England, which should make them No.4 in the United States behind WWF, TNA, and ROH. That show will begin in January 2010.
CAGEMATCH: Once again, thank you for answering my questions. Do you have anything you'd like to say?
Leonard Kruizenga: You're very welcome, it has been my pleasure. I'd like to wish you good luck and success with CAGEMATCH, and thank you again for remembering an old-school pro like myself, God Bless.
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